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Attack of the Man-Eating
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Burn


Butch Is a Noun


Everything I Have Is Blue


The Forgotten Ones


Girl on a Stick


A History of Barbed Wire


I Do/I Don't


Jesus and the Shamanic
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Johnny Was
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My Name Is Rand


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One of These Things
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Origami Striptease


Out of Control


Pink Steam


Pulling Taffy


The Rapture for Big Sinners


Rode Hard, Put Away Wet


Roulette


Satyriasis


A Scarecrow's Bible


Some Phantom/No Time Flat


Sugar


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suspect thoughts:
a journal of subversive writing


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Toilet


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The Wild Creatures


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by D. Travers Scott


Jennifer Natalya Fink is an award-winning writer, editor, teacher, and artist whom I've known and admired for years. Her sexy and riveting new novel, Burn, dives deep into American demons of socialism, sex, and repression, weaving them into an elegant and harrowing fable infused with rich humor.

Having seen Burn grow from early notes on orange hats and dog-eared gardening catalogs to the beautiful book Suspect Thoughts Press has now unleashed on the world, I felt like I should throw her a shower. We settled for a chat instead, which also gave her the chance to cash in an old IOU.

A long time ago, in a life far, far away, Fink and I ate an entire chocolate cake together and, with massive sugar highs, she interviewed me for a Chicago newsweekly article on local performance artists. It ran with pictures of me dancing in my underwear on a Grecian column. Unfortunately I don't have equally embarrassing photos of her, but I can't resist one flashback…

D. Travers Scott: One of the first times I saw you was at a performance cabaret at a lesbian bar in Chicago: you were walking on the bar wearing some kind of vintage cocktail dress and had a tape recorder strapped across you playing a loop of "Try to Remember." Since we both share the dark secret of having spent many years as performance artistes, I have to ask you what you learned from that period that informs your writing, and Burn in particular?

Jennifer Natalya Fink: What I learned from those ancient, tawdry performance days was that if you're going to dance on the bar, you'd better not wear stillettos.

(Slightly) more seriously, Linda Montano said, "Art is paying attention," and I think what my forays into performance, installation, and conceptual art gave me was an obsession with creating attention--a sort of corporeal, sensuous attention/tension in my audience. I don't simply want to tell a story to a passive audience; I want the reader to feel what philosopher Jean Luc Nancy might call a "birth to presence" when she reads my work. An awakening. I want her synapses pulse liver groin to thrum. I don't simply mean that I want the reader to get caught up in the story or identify with the characters; I want the text to perform a physical transformation upon the nervous system of the reader. I want to infect her.

DTS: Burn centers around the Jewish colony movement--an episode of American history I had previously known nothing about. How come this history never seemed to come up in my high school?

JNF: I would characterize it as the intentionally, violently repressed counterhistory of American socialism.

My relatives were part of the socialist colony movement, but they experienced such extreme oppression during the McCarthy era, that I only fully understood what the colony movement was and how it was destroyed when I became an adult, and became interested in utopic communities, socialism, and radical Jewish history.

My grandparents were part of this movement, and I grew up charmed and alarmed by the half-told stories of the foibles of the Colony. I identified with the desire to create a personal and political utopia, an alternative to the patriarchal family and capitalist social structure. There is something so hilarious and tragic about the idea that banal, bourgeois suburban Westchester (or Successchester, as a friend of mine terms it) used to be scattered with radical socialist Jewish collectives! At the height of the labor movement in the '30s, there were several dozen of these colonies in Westchester, New Jersey, and Long Island. They were founded as summer retreats for factory workers, created to provide a respite from the city and promote solidarity between workers; they evolved into utopic communities that aimed to promote solidarity and an alternative social and economic structure--somewhat like a kibbutz--to working class Jewish people. Then, in the '50s, the twin demons of McCarthyism and assimilation more or less eradicated them.

As I grew older, and participated in my own versions of such communities, I became aware of the difficulties of sustaining such an enterprise--of how sexual politics and territorialism make collectivity impossible, and about how dialectics of power often play out in political communities. The profound misogyny that structured every aspect of such communities also struck me as resonant with my experiences with the political left (including its contemporary incarnation as the queer left) in this country, and the charisma and complexity of the women operating with this system also intrigued me. I was struck by the absurdity and nobility of the Colonist's enterprise; these dirt-poor immigrant Jews had such chutzpah, creating a socialist utopia in America! They were such small-time, powerless working class folks, most with little education or capital, and yet their ideals and dreams were so enormous. And even though they were just a bunch of hippies, essentially, the US government saw fit to silence them. I always wanted to write about them, somehow; once Sylvia appeared on the page, I began to find a voice and a path through this complex history.

Today, this history seems all too relevant. The Bush/Rumsfeld/Cheney triumvirate's Patriot Act has given the green light to a McCarthyistic shadow world of illegal surveillance, interrogation, torture, and murder. Once again, racial 'others,' undocumented workers, and non-Christians are targeted. Meanwhile, forces of resistance are demonized, and the left is left to eat itself. In the Rumsfeld era of surveillance, illegal seizure of persons and property, and racial profiling, we see the same dynamics at work as in Sylvie's day: the retreat of the liberal middle class into bourgeois denial, the paranoia of the left in the face of very real persecution.

DTS: Yes, your protagonist! She so rocks. Tell us about Sylvie.

JNF: Oy, Sylvie, Sylvieleh! What a card, as Sheppie might say. While I used my considerable knowledge of Jewish yentas as the basis for Sylvie, she is not based on any actual person; my own bubbes are far saner and sweeter. And no Fink now nor ever has been a member of the red hair cotillion! I did want to represent a kind of working class Jewish woman who I know well, and who fits none of the racist, misogynistic stereotypes of Jewish women that we see paraded across the American literary and cinematic landscape. The JAP and the nagging Yiddishe mama are convenient; they take what's revolutionary about Jewish women's voices, sexualities, and politics, and demonize and trivialize them. Emma Goldman or Sylvia Edelman, however, can't be so easily dismissed. But to tell you the truth, while I know what my political and aesthetic intentions were in constructing Sylvia, at some point, she simply took over. She started telling me the story, and you know Sylvie--once she decides to talk, there's no stopping her.

DTS: Between menopause, the decline of the colony, and being a widow, Sylvie has her hands full, but then something more happens. Tell us about Simon.

JNF: Simon is Sylvie's serpent, her Eve, and her apple rolled into one. Simon is the ultimate object: a lover so objectified that he can't speak. Yet he ends up having all sorts of power. There is much talk in academic and feminist circles about the power of subjectivity; I've always been far more interested in the power of the object. The secret, obscene desire of us all is to be so thoroughly objectified that we lose all subjectivity. And by desiring the object, we in a sense become the object, the other-- we lose ourselves to the beloved.

I also wanted to flip the usual, tired midlife male crisis narrative. Menopausal women are some of the randier characters that I've ever met. They occupy a liminal space; they are no longer reproductive--no longer defined by 'biological' femaleness--yet unlike their middle-aged male counterparts, they are just as sexual as ever, and often are able to achieve a kind of freedom and autonomy in their sexuality that they never previously experienced. I was fascinated by the power dynamic between a younger boy and an older woman; whereas an older man has sexual and economic power by dint of being male over a young girl, things get more complicated when the woman is the older party. Sex is sexy to the extent it's about power, and what's sexiest to me are dynamics in which there are no clear binaries, no black-and-white, static roles in operation.

DTS: As this silent, beautiful blond boy, Simon immediately calls to mind Tadzio in Death in Venice, and other objects of desire from classical sculpture to contemporary porn. How did you see Simon relating to and differing from this tradition?

JNF: Well, the obvious difference is that Sylvia is a woman. There are a bazillion examples in "high" and "low" culture alike of texts that narrativize an older man's desire for a young woman, and a bazillion more that narrativize an older man's desire for a young man, but there are few, if any, examples of texts that tell the story of an older woman's desire for a young boy. When this trope does appear, it's as a cheap, sick, sad joke. I wanted to make Sylvia's relationship with Simon complex and sexy. Intergenerational relationships fascinate me; they ghost normative notions of sexuality, and make explicit the Oedipal subtext of all sexual relationships. That's damn sexy.

While of course I was thinking a bit about Tadzio and his soft-core brethren, my model, if anything, was Lolita and Lolita. Nabakov gets at the heart of American culture and its sexual politics like nobody's business, while writing the poetics of love, which is the poetics of contradiction.

DTS: Communism, pedophilia, menopause: Burn is a goddamn laugh riot. Seriously, though, there's a lot of humor in the book, especially from Sylvie and the other people at the Colony. What is the role of humor in Burn?

JNF: Hmmm…I think the version of Jewish humor that's been disseminated in U.S. popular culture is a highly sanitized, simplistic, masculinist one. From Woody Allen to Adam Sandler, we hear only the most superficial layer of a rich and kinky tradition. I wanted to bring the rich, crazy, potent, dark, sexy language that I grew up hearing to life. Yiddishkeit [Yiddish culture] has a brutal, sensual language forged out of an earthy, oppressed culture. Eskimos supposedly have fifty words for snow; just about every Yiddish word means either "suffering" or "penis."

DTS: Speaking of genitals, you and I got to know each other as officers in our college queer student group. How does sexuality inform Burn?

JNF: The idea that there is something 'normative' or normal about heterosexual sex strikes me as utterly absurd. According to Freud, there is nothing more difficult, unlikely, and perverted as a woman's desire for a man. So the deeply kinky, perverse nature of heterosexuality became one of the subtexts of this story. I could invoke an identity claim here--"As a bisexual woman, I…"--but I won't.

What I hope is that on the level of form, not plot or narrative, it is sexy. I want the most seemingly unsexual situation--walking to a meeting, trying on a hat, eating a tomato, driving in a stinky Buick in June--to become sexualized through the power of the writing itself. In terms of the 'actual' sex in the book (of which there is plenty), the challenge was to make it as kinky and gorgeous and outrageous as the stinky Buick.

DTS: Sexy tomatoes and stinky Buicks? What kind of research did you have to do for Burn?

JNF: As you know, underneath the eyeliner and push-up bra, I am quite the library geek. I spent a long time researching the colony movement, socialist Jewish history, proletarian literature, and McCarthyism, but I also had to research less obvious subjects such as tomato gardening and Paul Robeson. I also read lots of first-person accounts from members of various colonies. The Tamiment Library and Robert F. Wagner Labor Archive at NYU was a terrific source that I exploited early and often. But the most important research was my thirty-six year study of my extended family. My grandparents always fascinated me; they were bohemians, leftists, artists…all the things that I thought my generation had invented, my grandparents had already done. Twice. They embody the values, histories, and contradictions of the characters in Burn, though none of the characters even vaguely resembles either of them.

DTS: I love Sylvie's contradictions--she's not some warm-fuzzy grandmother stereotype. She's loveable, but definitely not reliable. How was writing a protagonist like that?

JNF: My experience is that in real life, NOBODY is reliable. I find it shocking that in American literary discourse there is this fetishization of the 'reliable narrator.' No Latin American writer worth her salt would entertain such an absurd notion!

The trick was to make Sylvia seem unreliable, but not so unreliable that the reader lost interest in her tale. That's a fine line. It took me three drafts to make her seem crazy like a fox, as opposed to crazy like a psychopath. All of us make up our stories, moment to moment; how you tell a given story about yourself depends on your mood, your memory, your desire, and most of all, your relationship to the listener. Our selves are flexible, transient, imaginary creatures, who we create and dissolve in every encounter.

I also wanted to undermine the idea that there is such a thing as a "reliable" narrator in fiction; it's fiction, after all! And all points of view, all versions of the story, are subjective and partial. All representation contains a blind spot: that of the eye/I of the narrator. That fascinates me, both in life and art. I was also interested in what it means to be paranoid when one is actually being persecuted. Or as the old Jewish joke goes, "Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not after me!"

email Jennifer Natalya Fink

read an excerpt from Burn

read more about the novel Burn

read more of Jennifer Natalya Fink's writing on her Featured Author webpage

Infecting the Reader: Talking with Jennifer Natalya Fink
© 2003 D. Travers Scott for Suspect Thoughts Press

author photograph © 2003 Frances Sorensen

[This feature interview may be used free for reprint in any media outlet
and may be creatively edited. Please email Greg Wharton for details.]

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